About the guest: Doug Jones is Head of Embedded Energy at eliq, based in Sweden. Eliq’s platform helps utilities turn energy data into something people actually understand and use.
In this conversation, Tania Barr (Head of Marketing, Podero) and Doug Jones discuss the gap between EV adoption and smart charging uptake. Doug argues that while EVs are growing fast, smart charging remains complex and confusing for average consumers, and the industry needs to simplify the experience rather than waiting for solutions like vehicle-to-grid to mature. He makes the case for the car app as the natural starting point for the customer’s ‘EV flex’ journey, but that utilities and car manufacturers don’t need to compete — they can complement each other. The overarching theme is that simplicity should be the priority, making smart charging feel effortless rather than something customers have to actively figure out.
Podero: Eliq works closely with energy retailers across Europe, and EV adoption and smart charging is a hot topic now. From the outside, it feels like smart tariffs and flexibility offers are becoming standard. But you’ve suggested that smart charging adoption is actually lagging behind EV uptake. What’s happening there?
Doug: Yes, EV adoption is growing quickly, and there are some excellent smart charging products on the market. But in reality, most of these are still being used by early adopters. For the average EV buyer, it’s not straightforward. They have to figure out which apps to download, how to connect their car, whether to use their energy supplier’s platform or a charging provider’s – and what “smart charging” even means.
If we want flexibility at scale, the experience needs to be much simpler. It has to be embedded into the places customers already interact with – whether that’s through their car manufacturer or energy provider – and framed in a way that’s easy to understand. Only then can smart charging and flexibility keep pace with EV adoption.
Podero: Do you see vehicle-to-grid as the big opportunity right now, or are we still waiting on regulation and legislation before it can really take off?
Doug: Vehicle-to-grid is a huge topic, and it’s clearly important for the future of EVs. But right now, a lot of focus and funding is going into small-scale pilots – programs with 10, 20, maybe 30 cars. Meanwhile, the bigger challenge is getting customers into flexibility programs in the first place.
We shouldn’t wait for the perfect vehicle-to-grid solution that maximizes value. We need to start with what’s already possible. V2G will come, but it depends on regulatory changes, warranty updates, and other structural shifts that will take time. If it’s available, great, people should use it. But the industry can’t rely on it as a magic solution. The priority should be scale: making smart charging simple and understandable for everyone, not just early adopters or energy enthusiasts. The goal is to reach the mainstream, so that for any EV driver, smart charging just makes sense.
Podero: Moving from petrol to EV is already a big shift. You start thinking about your car differently. Then we ask people to see it not just as mobility, but as an energy resource too: that’s quite a lot. I suppose the key is making it simple and interesting enough that it doesn’t feel overwhelming.
Doug: Exactly. And even the term “energy resource” can be part of the problem. People don’t think of their car that way: they have a relationship with it. They remember their first car, they care about it. They don’t have that same emotional connection with their energy supplier. So the framing really matters. Instead of talking about optimisation and energy markets, it’s far more powerful to offer something simple and tangible, like free charging. Everyone understands free charging. You don’t need complex explanations or extra steps.
That’s why we believe the journey should start in the car ecosystem itself. When someone buys a new car, the first thing they download is the car app. That’s where they set everything up. So why not start the energy connection there too? From the car app, you could connect to smart charging services and unlock those benefits, instead of sending customers off to manage multiple apps and platforms.
Podero: At Podero, we really believe fewer apps are better. Our view is that utilities should build an “everything energy” app as the main hub for managing the home, including EVs. But you’re suggesting the journey should start in the car app. How do those two worlds connect?
Doug: I don’t think it’s an either/or. Both approaches need to exist. If you embed energy offers in the car app – where customers naturally start – you’ll get more people connected faster, and scale is the name of the game. Getting thousands of customers to connect straight away is far easier than expecting them to buy a car, then later notice a utility campaign, then switch provider, then sign up.
That said, utilities still play a crucial role because the energy bill sits with them, and they’re the experts in trading, flexibility, and control. So there’s a real need for an all-in-one utility energy app, but also a need to let customers start their journey elsewhere. The two don’t compete; they complement each other. Car companies focus on cars, and energy companies focus on energy.
Podero: Could the answer be a dual-branded “Intel inside” model, where customers stay in their Tesla or Polestar app, but charging and flexibility are powered by an energy provider in the background, so the car and energy worlds connect seamlessly?
Doug: Yes, and connecting those two worlds is exactly the challenge. For car manufacturers, partnering with energy companies across multiple countries is complex, and many current schemes still feel like side pilots rather than something truly integrated into the customer’s energy bill. The goal should be to make the benefit seamless and real. EVs are a special case because people don’t think of them as electricity assets, they think of them as cars, and they have a relationship with them. Unlike heat pumps or solar, which clearly “stay in their lane,” EVs sit in both mobility and energy. That’s why the energy side needs to be made efficient for customers, but not something they feel they have to think about.
Podero: I’d love to see a world where people recommend EVs not just because they’re cheaper to run, but because they automatically plug you into an energy ecosystem. It should feel like a no-brainer – the car, the tariff, the battery, all working together. But today you almost have to “hit” the customer twice: once on the car decision, then again on the energy decision. Utilities have great tariffs and bolt-ons, but they don’t always feel like the natural companion to the car.
Doug: That’s exactly where utilities can shine – through smart, confident tariff design. Simple, tangible offers like free charging work because everyone understands them. We’re already seeing people respond to that. It shouldn’t feel like a side trial or a voucher scheme; it should connect seamlessly into the energy bill and feel like a real benefit.
This isn’t about one side dominating. Car makers and utilities each have strengths, and if they collaborate properly, everyone gets a share of a much bigger pie. The market is still nascent, so we should be experimenting, car-first journeys, energy-first journeys, depending on where the customer starts. Someone might enter through their EV manufacturer and later realise they could add solar or a home battery. Others may already be energy-engaged and then add the car. If we make it simple, compelling, and integrated, EV adoption can naturally open the door to broader energy participation, without customers feeling like they have to think about it too much.
Podero: Yeah, absolutely. Lots of opportunities, for sure. Thank you.
Doug: Thank you very much indeed. Thank you for having me. It’s been really fun.
